Are you ready to participate? If you are, then RE barcamp is ready for you.

April 20, 2009 by Brad Coy
Filed under blogposts, building rebarcamp

Comments

318Commentshttp://rebarcamp.com/?p=3182009-04-20+16%3A54%3A02Brad+Coy on "Are you ready to participate? If you are, then RE barcamp is ready for you."

Ines on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 8:31 pm

Hey Brad – I’m totally with you and love how you put this. The whole concept of BarCamps is the “unconference” feel of them and the fact that they are supposed to encourage interaction. Look at Andy’s Half-Baked sessions (they are the best and most fun).

Thanks for putting it out there because it’s exactly what I have in mind for Miami. (hopefully in September sometime)

Ricardo Bueno on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 8:32 pm

I loved the fact that people came out and participated in Los Angeles’ first ever REBarCamp! Folks from all over drove in, flew in and participated and I think that that was a great thing. I think that for the first time around, the participation made it a great event. However…there are some things that I would have done differently or that I would have liked to be different. One of them being: **it felt too conference like.**

As much as I liked the fact that Dakno came out and live-streamed the event, I think the main ballroom was unnecessary. We could have done without it. Or we could have used the space to create more groups and had group discussions. To me, some of the best presentations were the ones in the break-out rooms where people were stuffed in and sitting on the floor to have a discussion (like the one that Dustin Luther and Morgan Brown had on affiliate marketing). Or the group on Blogging 101 in the morning…the crowd was so hungry and eager to learn and the discussion(s) going around were less presentation like and centered around more of a discussion.

All of this to say that as much as I liked the live-stream, it almost sorta puts pressure on setting up a formal presentation or having a panel. And that I think isn’t really all that necessary. People want to learn and some of the best learning happens in a collaborative environment where there’s discussion back and forth amongst the members of the group. If you look at some of the live-stream from the LA event, there was more interaction amongst the presenters and less from the audience and that I think was a mistake.

I have more thoughts on this but I don’t want to babble on so I”ll pause here and wait for a response…

ted.mackel@kw.com on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 9:09 pm

Brad, thanks for bringing up the topic. I am going to Los Angeles BarCamp on the first weekend in May (http://barcampla.org/). This is a traditional non Real Estate BarCamp. I think I will understand the format as you explained it better after I attend.

I think the hotel ball room atmosphere would make it hard for break outs…..thats a lot of expensive floor space, maybe more rooms like all the breakouts would be more conducive for the format.

Dustin on Mon, 20th Apr 2009 9:46 pm

Brad:

I’ve been a bit skeptical on the re barcamp concept since the beginning, and as Andy will probably tell you, I was probably a bit over-skeptical about the first one in SF considering how much fun I had hanging out with everyone once I got there (ditto for LA!).

Nonetheless, I’ve been a bit silent in my skepticism for two reasons: 1) I get no benefit from being the guy who doesn’t think barcamps are the greatest thing to hit real estate and 2) I make money giving presentations, so I don’t know how much of my skepticism is self-interest in action.

With that said, here is the dilemma I see facing the BarCamp organizers going forward…

There’s a strong tendency for current organizers to try to engage a wider audience (i.e your every-day realtor) because for most of the existing participants (read: real estate tech folks), the money is in reaching a new audience, not in ideation with existing “believers.” To do this, the conferences have become more “organized” with some people even going so far as to advocate for things like headline speakers and featured presentations. Nothing against the organization that Ricardo did for LA (because I honestly think he did an amazing job bringing people together!), but the truth is I didn’t want to have a prominent speaking role because I didn’t like the idea of hyping speakers for a barcamp event. (If you’re going to hype speakers, call it a conference and give me a paycheck!)

The benefit of hyping speakers is that it can help attract a wider audience. The flip side is that those same forces make the events feel more “conference-like” and very un-barcamp… at least based on my expectations for a barcamp.

At the end of the day, I think the organizers of each of these events have to ask themselves:

Do they want to attract and educate “newbie” agents who might be unfamiliar with social media and real estate technology (in which case you better make it pretty conference-like) or do they want to have a fun gathering where they can explore the boundaries of real estate tech and social media with friends (in which case I remain extremely skeptical there are enough real estate technology folks who are genuinely interested in sharing ideas with their “competition”)?

My take is that current barcamp events try to find a middle ground that doesn’t exist. Presentations are generally aimed at newbies by vendors who are trying their best *not* to hard-sell attendees on “their” solution and the closest to “barcamp-like” exploration occurs outside the event over cocktails where deals are made (the reason I go!), but nothing too deep is ever explored.

Hence my skepticism…

Teri L on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 5:09 am

I think I’d prefer an impromptu, informal gathering of folks in a coffee shop, that way no one would have to tiptoe around trying not to be a vendor, no one would be the official organizer, no one would get their ego caught up in being an organizer. There would be no ‘I’ did this or that, it’s just, hey! I have a few ideas, you have a few ideas, let’s talk.

Dustin says “because for most of the existing participants (read: real estate tech folks), the money is in reaching a new audience”

What money? Money for whom? Why do you need a bigger audience? It’s a slippery slope, right?

True: I’m going to be in San Diego around July 4th. Anyone in town want to get together? Contact me. We can meet at a coffee shop. I have a few ideas. You bring your ideas. We can throw stuff at the wall and see what sticks. There. UnREBCSD has just been created. Cheers.

Nick Bastian on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:31 am

Participation is absolutely the key. Actually, FREE participation appears to be key.
As BarCamps grow in popularity, the vendors become more interested in sponsoring. As more vendors sponsor, they tend to want to push their product. It is a fact of life that goes against what most of us believe is the essence of BarCamp. The push to have more events at larger venues may be what turns them into conferences. Don’t get me wrong, sponsors should and can get value from their investment and they are a necessity in helping with a great BarCamp. As with most things BarCamp related we walk fine lines. Several sponsors “get it” while many do not.

San Francisco was raw, it was new and it was a place where people learned from others and took away a lot of very valuable information. I am truly thankful for what I have learned at BarCamps.
Professional speakers have their time and place but might not be the best fit for BarCamps although a keynote or introductory session can help set the stage for a great day. As long as that speaker doesn’t end with a “for today only, your price is $19.99!” all should be fine. (just my opinion)
In reality, there are people that “should” get paid for speaking but I believe there is a different setting, it’s called a conference or trade show.
The old school mentality of keeping your secrets from the competition will probably live on but the fact is, many people in the BarCamp world feel that sharing information is a way to better themselves, if others benefit as well, great!
There is a huge turn over in the real estate business so the desire for people to learn new things is always there and we will always be able to attract new attendees. After a very long time in this business, I am not scared of the “competition” and look at the millions of people in the valley as a huge pool where many agents can do very well. Heck, I know several GREAT bloggers and participants of the upcoming BarCamp and have had very few cross sales with them. My point is, there will always be business to be had, even if I choose to “help” the competition.
Reaching out to new and larger audiences instead of keeping the “core” groups together is a challenging dilemma as well. It takes a lot of effort to reach them and it could become another cost associated with putting on a “successful” Camp. Success should be measured in how people learn and converse with each other instead of a head count of people that don’t want to use the information or share with others. Heck, we could have a great BarCamp with a dozen people. (imo)
As far as I’m concerned, we should try to keep intimate, free flowing and information focused sessions where the participants call the shots. Growing BarCamps in popularity is going to make that increasingly hard to do.
Any time you have or give something for “free” scepticism abounds. In reality, our time is not free, our education is not free and our experiences are not free. What we choose to do with them is invaluable.

Linsey on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:35 am

I do think Dustin has a point in saying that the with a ‘wider audience’ there is a need for organization. But I don’t think that you need to entirely forgo the format. I think assessing some base topics, just as you are doing here, to lay an initial groundwork helps mitigate some of the confusion.

I listened to the San Diego call and while I love the sponsors, I hate feeling like I’m being sold something. The richness is in the interaction and the dialogue. The more of interaction that is promoted, the better the overall experience will be IMO.

As for your request – an idea for a session – let me throw out a couple I’d love to see.

(1) Love to see something about ways bloggers have been successful in moving site traffic from visits to leads. What are the best lead capture tools? What have they noticed about their blog that really worked?

(2) I’d be interested in seeing something on producing video – particularly for those of us without that sexy Mac.

Just some ideas. Good luck.

Gregg B on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 8:47 am

Brad – good job putting getting this discussion out in the open. My two cents – RE Barcamp needs to decide if it is a conference or not – there cannot be a middle ground.

A conference requires a big, glitzy venue/location, lots of sponsor money for space and speakers, fees for attendees, and lots of one-way dialog with passive participation, maybe a few questions. Sponsors expectations are that they can exhibit and present their products, and participants expectations are to listen (not participate), learn, hear sales pitches from vendors and get “wowed” by big names that are paid to present. Organizers are promoters and do everything they can to get people to attend.

An “unconference” requires very little sponsor money, the venue is not glitzy in nature but consists of many small “break-out” style rooms, sponsor expectation needs to be set that they are helping to develop and support a community (not selling products) and participants are coming not only to learn but also share. If participants do not want to engage, then this is the wrong event for them to attend. They will only learn by engaging. Organizers are facilitators, attendance occurs because people see the value.

The LA Barcamp I attended was very well organized, but fell in between, and that is what is prompting so much conversation. It’s too hard, if not impossible, to ride the fence. Speaking as a sponsor of the event, we sponsored to help support the community. Our intent was not to sell product, we figured that would be a byproduct of active participation and that sales activity would occur outside and after the conference, not in it. Hopefully the people who saw us there would agree.

Having said all of this, I learned a lot myself from the RE Barcamp, but I learned the most from sessions that were informal and had active participation from not only session leaders, but also the participants who had experience in the topic. These open sessions encouraged active participation, and I was able to get real-time feedback on thoughts, comments and questions that I was able to raise during the discussion. The back-and-forth discussion was much more valuable than what the “speakers” said. So I would concur with the sentiment that participation is key.

So, in short, the real question for organizers of future events is, RE Barcamp: conference or not?

Laurie March, EvangelistaLA on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 9:01 am

Hmm… I thoroughly enjoyed the format, the casual nature of the rooms, and the ability to ‘vote with my feet’ and leave if the topic did not appeal to me.

I also met incredible people, open to learning, and insanely curious about new ways to connect, promote, learn, and prosper.
Some of the best things I took from the event were from other attendees and people that just stood up and spoke their mind.

Educating real estate professionals on ways to succeed, connect, and sell themselves will only speed up the process of the old guard and the new separating, giving the homeowner a clear picture of who they want/need to do business with. If you’ve got the secret sauce and don’t want to share it, you can still speak about general things that help other agents become easier for you to work with when the time comes…

I agree, free is key. If you feel pressured by a sales pitch, or someone presenting creeps into the land of “what’s different about our service…” you can just clear the room. When you’ve paid to be there, you might feel more compelled to squirm through content you don’t need.

I agree with Linsey, I’d love to see more sessions around blogging. Creating content. Voice. What do people actually read? How to leverage all these wonderful websites, widgets, networks. I’m sure it’s elementary for some, and they’d walk from that session, but I really enjoyed hearing from people who’ve been blogging, doing all sorts of clever things online. AND… more on how to take the audience you’re creating and convert it into leads.

Thanks for all your work to create this event and keep the momentum going, guys!

Elaine Hanson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 10:16 am

I really enjoyed REBCLA – thanks Ricardo & Stacey & Irena & all!
When we spoke at REBarcampLA, I expressed my concerns regarding San Diego becoming a huge conference that will have lost the feeling of the interaction in the breakout rooms. I loved that I was able to ask my questions, hear others opinions and experiences, and learn with a small group. It was comfortable and really fun. I found it to be a giving atmosphere with nothing but encouragement and a distinct absence of know-it-all attitude.

I don’t want to lose that.

I was only in the main room for one presentation, and I didn’t mind the presentation style because it was a how-to workshop by @RealtorTed. He was able to demonstrate with examples and people were able to freely ask questions.

Even though there were 300 attendees, I did not feel overwhelmed at all because of the small breakout rooms. I even shocked myself by participating in the Half-Baked session. Even though we didn’t even place, it was a great learning experience and so much fun!! (I’ll be better next time!)

I don’t want to see this “go corporate” There is enough of that around. Sponsors can provide information, but I want to be the one asking for it, not the one it is thrown at. I’ll call you if you connect with me, not if you preach at me.

How to keep it small? I don’t have enough experience with REBC to be really constructive, but I think it is maintaining an attitude and sometimes, saying no thanks. Like Teri, I’ll show up in a coffee shop, don’t need a t-shirt, and will buy my own lunch if I’m learning in good company. “In good company” — that’s it for me!

Mike Mueller on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 10:23 am

I’m a very big fan of every REBarCamp experience but I’ll echo and agree with Dustin’s thought.

Heck, I’ll even add another complaint.
Many of the attendees have a decent enough grasp of what is being discussed. Yet the very person that really could benefit the most from the experience never heard about it. They are sitting at home, offline, missing it all. http://areweconnected.com/2009/04/rebarcampla/

Jason Berman on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 10:50 am

BarCamp is NOT a conference. BarCamp is an organized meetup with a location, time, & maybe food/t-shirts provided. The rest should be organic magic.

Show up and let the crowd build the day.

One more thought….

Some have expressed that RE professionals need justification that REBarCamps are worth their time investment. This idea has led to more structure & pre-determined content. I think catering to those that don’t ‘get’ it yet is a poor idea. The best way for newb’s to join the party is by jumping in.

RE BarCamps flourish if those on the edge are stimulated and support the concept by attending, not by those needing to be convinced this is worth their time.

Watch the SF BarCamp this year. See how it evolves. That should be the template for other organizers on the appropriate ‘vibe’.

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 1:24 pm

Thanks everyone for doing a little bit more than just “chiming in” and giving some real constructive feedback.

Ines – the Half-baked sessions are a great example of encouraging interaction. Though I doubt I can make Miami , I’m happy that you are involved in spearheading the event.

Ricardo – Everything from your involvement in LA to your asking for detailed feedback (and getting it) should be commended. Sharing all that you do is very valuable. Thank you.

Ted – I concur with what you and Ricardo said about the ballroom. It’s not always easy to organize once you have the space. But sometimes you just don’t know till it’s all over.

Dustin – I appreciate you breaking your silence. Your skeptical point of view is a valued one. YOU are one of the people that I spoke to in private about the subject matter. Interestingly enough, the same thing was on a lot of peoples minds. Your questions about a “middle ground” are along the same lines that keep these discussions going back and forth with regards to planning.

Teri – “What money? Money for whom? Why do you need a bigger audience? It’s a slippery slope, right?” Right. With what Dustin pointed out, I’m always looking at the volunteers and asking myself … why are you doing this? What I would love to see you do is show up to your local REBC and put up on the white board “UnREBC” Coffee and brainstorming at the cafe across the street. Leave your swag behind”. Maybe that’s wishful thinking on my part

Nick – “As more vendors sponsor, they tend to want to push their product.” Therein lies the rub. Vendor sponsors are generally given clear expectations, yet more guidelines could be set for other organizers.

“…our time is not free, our education is not free and our experiences are not free. What we choose to do with them is invaluable.” Indeed. Thanks for further differentiating what you expect from a barcamp and how that differs from a conference.

Rob Hahn on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 1:26 pm

FWIW, I think REBC will start to be true value when the number of attendees start to head towards 50, as opposed to 500.

I’m doing the monthly Lucky Strikes Social Media Club thing here in NYC, and at around 15-20 people, it’s almost the ideal size. Everyone talks. Everyone participates. Everyone gives and takes. There are no real passive listeners, although certainly you have folks who like to talk more than others. *raise hand*

The current REBC is headed towards becoming another set of industry conferences. 300-400 attendees isn’t a Barcamp; it’s a not-so-small conference. Inman only draws some 750 people, after all.

-rsh

Kelley Koehler on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 1:54 pm

Well, the title of this does say “speak your mind.” Blame the label.

In my humble experience, those who complain loudest about the transition of rebarcamp from interactive to presentation tend to be those who DON’T EVEN ATTEND THE SESSIONS. They’re in the hallways chatting, or having business meetings, pausing to go deliver a session here or there.

If you’re wanting to keep rebarcamp interactive – go to a session and interact. Have your business meeting at some other time. Or have your meeting then, but don’t expect to have a voice in how they’re arranged in the future.

Go participate. Lead by example. Encourage others to do the same.

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 1:59 pm

Linsey – Thanks for sharing your ideas for sessions. Interaction and participation. This is what REbarcamp teaches me as well and it’s what I’d like to pay forward.

Gregg – REBC has been on a big climb upward in scale. LA was even initially planed to bridge the gap a little bit. Now it seems that that trend has turned back to bringing it back home to more simplicity. San Diego, preceding NAR will be interesting in the same way. Something I shared on Todd’s post “* Conceptually, RE barcamp can be created with some space, chairs, and little to no money. Don’t let the idea that you have to create the next BIG one or need lot’s of cash to create one. You don’t need to have a happy hour and you don’t need any “rock stars” to show up. The proof is in the pudding. Take a look at some of the examples from the events listed on this blog. What’s happening in these more localized barcamps is some pretty exciting stuff.”

To answer your question “…RE Barcamp: conference or not?” I think that’s a big NOT.

Elaine – My team has taken 4th and 5th place at Half-baked. Don’t rub it in Just sharing your opinion and experience is plenty constructive. Thank you for doing so.

Mike – Having REBC grow the way it is does give the opportunity to many more. Thanks for banging the drum!

Jason – You’re right… and you’re right. I grow a bit tired of the effort to try and reach people to ‘get it’ myself. The ubiquity of barcamps will allow more of a chance for people to jump in and take a chance when they’re good and ready. Besides, not having enough attendees at this point does not seem like a problem. Interesting.

Jay Thompson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 3:25 pm

Brad – great video, and I love the message.

I’ve gotten both direct and indirect feedback about what people would like to see at REBC Phoenix. And all that feedback is greatly appreciated and considered.

Surprisingly, some of that feed back and predictions of failure has come from folks who have: 1) never even attended a bar camp; and/or 2) don’t seem to realize that the Phoenix bar camp hasn’t even happened yet.

To them I say, “whatever”. Providing your vision of what REBC should be is fine, but let’s hold off announcing the failure until the event has at least taken place.

I’ve attended two REBC’s, and watched live streaming of several others. I gave Ricardo some very direct and candid feedback on some of the “vendor rush” I saw at REBCLA. But that was only what happened in one room, there was a lot going on elsewhere that I didn’t see.

I’ve also helped organize two REBC’s (a tiny bit for SF, and a pretty large part in Phoenix). Teri, I can assure you organizing a bar camp isn’t done for ego. There are plenty simpler (and more effective) ways to inflate an ego if that’s what someone wants. The organizers I’ve worked with have all been tremendously dedicated people that want nothing more than help facilitate a great experience for all those that are at the camp.

Every bar camp will be different. It’s a function of who is there — the personalities, their experience, their hopes and fears, and what expectations and directions are set. Even though there have been several REBCs held to date, let’s keep in mind there has yet to be a second camp in any one location. Everyone is really pretty much doing this all for the first time.

If someone wants to attend bar camp and sit in the back of the room and not say a word, so what? Maybe, just maybe that person will have a “eureka moment”, head off the next day and begin to fundamentally change their business for the better. And that person might just be back at the next bar camp standing up, evangelizing, and engaging with others on a level none of have ever fathomed.

And maybe they won’t learn a damn thing, and they’ll walk out mumbling to themselves, “what a complete waste of time”.

Again, so what?

Not everyone has the kind of personality to open up in a crowd of strangers. Many are probably coming to get answers to questions that anyone reading this already knows… what is a blog? Twitter what? I can measure web traffic? So we’re supposed to do what, say “Oh sorry, this is an exclusive event and you can’t come unless you actively participate”??

Balancing the needs of the different levels of expertise will be a challenge. Personally, every time I teach a “blogging 101″ class, I learn something as often those with far less experience ask thought-provoking questions that some of us old guys haven’t ever considered. “Fresh eyes” can be very enlightening at times. I think a combination of new and experienced, young and old is exactly what bar camp needs.

I don’t look at REBC Phoenix as one big event. We’ve got 4 session areas and a half dozen smaller areas. Let’s see, that’s 10 places to meet, and we’ve got 5 one hour blocks. If my math is right, it’s going to be 50 “events”, not one giant event.

Will it go off without a hitch? Of course not. Will it offer something for everyone? Probably not. Will a significant portion of those that come walk out with new or improved ideas and come back to the next one? I think so. We’ll know soon enough.

Todd Carpenter on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 5:03 pm

My friend thinks his Mustang is a sports car. Obviously it is not. What sort of sports car has a back seat? Besides, Mustangs don’t handle very well. Everyone knows that handling is what sports cars are all about.

I own a Miata, it is a true sports car. It drives on rails, the top comes down, it’s rear wheel drive and it brings the joy of throttle induced over-steer to another level.

My uncle owns a 911. He tells me my Miata is not a true sports car. It’s too slow, and not manly enough to be considered a sports car. He also scoffs at my friend’s Mustang because of the way it handles in the corners.

No worry because my friend thinks the 911 is too damn expensive to be considered a sports car. I go back to the rear seat thing.

They are wrong, I am right. End of story.

Why am I wasting your time talking about sports cars? I don’t know. Why are you wasting my time talking about what RE BarCamp is?

Why does REBarCamp HAVE to be an unconference? Why does it HAVE to be small to work? Why does it HAVE to be free of presentations. Why does it HAVE to appeal to a broader audience? Why does it HAVE to have more structure? Why does it HAVE to be black or white. Why can’t there be an in-between?

I’m so bored with this conversation. The biggest REBarCamp (SF) I attended was my favorite. The most structured, conference like REBC I attended (Virginia) was nearly as good for me, just in a different way. I’m happy enough to let the people putting out the time and effort to put one of these events together figure it out on there own.

In addition, while everyone wants to argue about what it has to be, have any of you considered what happens next? Who is going to enforce YOUR idea of what REBC should be.

WHAT IF I MADE REBARCAMP SD A SHOWCASE FOR NAR?

WHAT IF I INVITE MAX PIGMAN TO PITCH REALTOR.COM?

WHAT IF I CHARGE FIFTY BUCKS?

WHAT IF I ONLY LET THE SPONSORS SPEAK?

WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO ABOUT IT?

I’m sorry to yell. Everyone here should know I wouldn’t consider doing this. But really, what would happen next? There’s no REBC Police to go complain to.

Unlike Dustin, and in spite of having the same concerns related to my own business interest in REBlogWorld, I’ve been behind RE BarCamp from day one.

Dustin, with all due respect (earned over a four year friendship) I really don’t care what you think about RE BarCamp. The same goes for anyone else who hasn’t volunteered to help in putting on one of these events.

I don’t agree exactly with Brad’s vision, but I respect it because he’s working to make it happen.

In addition feedback from anyone who attended is cool, but feedback and blog comments doesn’t guaranty a better event in the future.

If you want the event to go a certain way, get your ass involved in organizing it.

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 5:07 pm

Rob – I could see how the synergy of a small group would be powerful. I’ve participated in 3 barcamps now ranging from 200-300 participants each and they did not really feel that “big”.

Kelley – “If you’re wanting to keep rebarcamp interactive – go to a session and interact… Go participate” BINGO!

Jay Thompson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 5:44 pm

Damnit, I could have saved all that time typing my comment, waited, and said, “Yeah, what Todd said.”

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 6:24 pm

Todd – It’s too bad you think this is a waste of time and/or boring. On your post you said: “You tell me. I’m hoping this post will start a discussion on where you think Re BarCamp is headed. Give you ideas on how we can all make it better. Tell us what you’ve like or disliked about it to date?”

Why ask?

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 6:35 pm

Jay – thanks for your first comment
if I’m coming across a little dogmatic then that’s on me. Half of me is the guy being vocal and half is the guy sitting silently. I hear ya!

Have fun with Phoenix. Should be great! I’m only sorry that I won’t be there to spill coffee on the back seat of your Jeep.

Linsey on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 6:51 pm

Todd – That’s damn hilarious. Well said!

Todd Carpenter on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:08 pm

Brad, I’m bored with THIS conversation. The one about where people tell me what RE BarCamp has to be. It’s been going on in private and public since last fall.

The conversation bores me because the conversation doesn’t amount to anything but a continued conversation. The first time it was brought up, I said to come up with some suggested guidelines and I’ll publish them on the site. Did the people wanting guidelines write them up? Nope. The offer still stands. Let’s see if anyone takes it on.

In addition, I’m betting no one is going to touch the policing issue I brought up because there is no answer.

Who’s going to police RE BarCamp?

It certainly won’t be me. Even if I wanted to (I DON’T), people would misguidedly misinterpret it as a power move by NAR. Much like many of you did when I simply suggested I’d be a good person to organize the event in San Diego.

So I go back to my one simple point. The one that basically agrees with your own. If you want to influence an RE BarCamp event, be a part of it’s organization.

Rob Hahn on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:20 pm

To be sure, he who organizes an event gets to dictate how it shall be run. I think some of the defensiveness is… shall we say unwarranted? Far be it for me — who hasn’t organized a REBC — to dictate to an organizer how it should or shouldn’t be run.

So if I’ve pushed my nose into an exclusive REBC-organizers only conversation, I apologize, and shall withdraw forsooth.

But in case this is just a sharing of ideas and thoughts, rather than an argument with folks trying to “prove a point” as it were, my observations are as follows:

1. There is a need in the industry to teach people some basics. The basics of blogging, of social media, of engagement, of consumer focus, and so on.

2. Whether that need should be filled at a formal “event” or at a REBC-style “un-event” is an open question, but it does appear to me that an ‘event’ such as Inman, RETech South, NAR, etc. are at least venues where this teaching and learning can take place.

3. There is a need for folks who understand the basics to discuss some rather more challenging topics, as the real estate industry is undergoing a seismic change before our eyes.

4. It is not at all clear to me that these discussions could take place an a formal event, because they really do invite participation from everyone, and large groups are not well-suited for participatory debate and discussion. This explains partially why some of the best learning at an Inman or RISMedia happens afterhours, with a bunch of smart people (many of whom are on this thread) sitting around knocking back beers and talking shit.

While I loved Todd’s story, it appears to me that the question isn’t whether a Miata is or is not a sportscar. What you call it isn’t the important thing. It seems to me the question is whether a Miata is the best vehicle to use if you want to take six people on a camping trip, or vice versa, whether a Honda Odyssey minivan is really well suited to drag racing on the strip.

Different tools, different event-types, for different purposes?

-rsh

Todd Carpenter on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:40 pm

“It seems to me the question is whether a Miata is the best vehicle to use if you want to take six people on a camping trip.”

I’m not interested in going camping. And for instance, I don’t care if Jay Thompson wants to go drag racing.

Look, I was overbearing by design Rob. But only to a point. I care what others think, but I care ten fold more about the people dumping their time into making these events happen than those who want to sit back and Monday morning quarterback them.

More than half of these events started with a phone call or email to me, asking what to do. What the people who have organized them like the most, it that they have the freedom to do it their way. Privately and publicly, several of them thanked me tonight for the above comment.

Rob Hahn on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 7:54 pm

No doubt man — the opinions that matter most are those of the organizer. And it’s unfortunate if people are criticizing their efforts.

I do think it is worth discussing the optimal use of a “nonconference” however, whether that’s called REBC or something else

-rsh

Jay Thompson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 8:07 pm

“And for instance, I don’t care if Jay Thompson wants to go drag racing.”

For the record, my Jeep could kick your Miata’s ass. As long as we were off road.

I don’t think this conversation will ever end. As long as there are bar camps, there will be opinions on what they should be.

And boring or not, I personally think those conversations are valuable. I’ve gotten some good ideas for REBCPHX from similar conversations. What annoys me are the ones who say (in effect) “I hate bar camps” having never been to one. That I just don’t get. But even those people are entitled to their opinions, I can, and do, simply chose to ignore them.

I’m not a fan of rules. I break almost every blogging “rule” in the book and my blog does OK. Ditto for other aspects of social media. I don’t want to see REBC burdened with a bunch of rules and formalities, structure and guidelines. We can save that for the NAR conferences and committees (no offense Todd).

The bottom line to me is, if you want an REBC run a certain way, knock yourself out. Organize one. You can do it in a coffee shop, or a hotel, or a baseball stadium. You can do it with, or without, sponsors. You can keep it small, or grow it as large as your venue and pocketbook allow. You can make the rules.

Elaine Hanson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 8:14 pm

I haven’t organized one.
I’ve only been to one.

I just want to go.

It’s where the people who want to learn and share are.

Jay Thompson on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 8:21 pm

“It’s where the people who want to learn and share are.”

And THAT is pretty much the entire point. How each REBC gets there may be different (and maybe it should be different). But as long as there is learning and sharing happening does it really matter what path is taken?

Brad Coy on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 9:09 pm

Todd – Gotcha! You’re bored with it. That doesn’t surprise me since I as well hear some about it and I’m sure you hear much more. I pretty much have kept my thoughts about what I said in the vid to myself until other people started bringing it up (mainly on the SD conference call). It’s a pretty benign statement other than asking for participation for some folks that might not listen to that recorded call, or might be apprehensive. – A positive +

I think it’s great that you you posted that history post and gathered feedback. I’m super happy that Ricardo gathered feedback after working his ass of in LA. This all takes work. Thanks for everyone who gave. If there’s something that you don’t like with what’s been said here then go ahead and ignore it.

Take what you can and leave the rest.

I’ve had plenty of people give me praise both public and private as well for this post (maybe some of the same people)… it’s because the conversation does have value.

JeffX on Tue, 21st Apr 2009 11:50 pm

REBar Camps don’t exist in a vacuum…that’s all I got.

Heather Elias on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 3:07 am

Okay, here’s a secret..I was scared to death to come to the first BarCamp, in San Fran. I knew that I needed to participate, per the guidelines of what I was to expect at this event, and I wasn’t sure I had enough knowledge or expertise to add something to the conversation. Sure, I was going to recognize a lot of faces there, but they were folks who I held in very high esteem..what was I going to say that would contribute to what they were sharing?

I went anyway, figuring I’d sit in the back of the room and absorb stuff..which I did, to some extent. I might have contributed a little bit. But that ‘eureka moment’ happened about 30 times, and I came away with so many good ideas and ways of looking at my business, that I’ve made it a point to attend every event I could find a way to get to. I even got to help with the Virginia event, which was a great experience.

The best part about having so many different people involved in the planning and organizing is that each one is different. The content is different, based on who is contributing…and vendor or not, I’ve gotten great information and I don’t think I’ve ever felt ’sold’.

BarCamp is what each person makes of it…whether you want to contribute or absorb or organize (or any combination of that)…as long as there are people willing to share ideas and experiences, the details will work themselves out.

I’ll be sitting there, with a freshly sharpened pencil and a clean legal pad, and an open mind…

Nannette Saunders on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 5:04 am

I have attended REBCVA. When I got there I had no idea what to expect and I certainly did not think I had any value to add. However once I got there I realized that although I was not the most knowledgeable I certainly did have value to add. I learned that many more others wanted to know more about technology than I thought. We brain stormed on the way home and determined that we could pull this off in Lynchburg Va. God knows we need it!
I plan to attend a few more REBAR Camps prior to our event. Just to get more ideas.
My biggest fear is that sponsors will try to pitch as I am one that is not into this. I really want to keep the event small and concentrate on quality not quantity.
As far as those who want to tell the organizers how to do it or even critique an event after the fact I say “Whatever!” I would encourage them to put on an event themselves the way they think it should be done.
Then there are those that don’t get it. We recently had a planning committee which nine people showed up. I wonder how many of them will actually show up at the next planning meeting. I bet not half of them. Already I’ve heard some tell that they don’t think they can volunteer their time for whatever reason. I’m cool with that and I say “Next”. My purpose is not to reform others to think that these tools are valuable. I am organizing the REBAR Lynchburg to share and learn as much as I can, to be a value to others and increase my influence on this industry. To do that I must surround myself with like minds and gain strength from them.
I have never been one that thought if I shared information I would lose money. There are plenty of homes out there to sell and if you beat enough bushes and use the right tools your only competition is yourself. To be better than you were yesterday, or last year should be your goal. I agree you should know what the competition is doing however, sharing only makes me a better business woman and real estate professional.

Rob Hahn on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 6:06 am

So… I’m curious…

What do you all think is the proper role of a sponsor?

Given sentiments like Nanette’s: “My biggest fear is that sponsors will try to pitch as I am one that is not into this”, I’m curious what organizers and attendees think how a company interested in giving money to REBC should look at the spend.

-rsh

David G from Zillow.com on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 6:18 am

I once asked Gary Vee a similar question about how to get the most reach out of web video. His answer was humbling: “you’re asking the wrong %^&*$ question.” Then he said; “You should be asking how you can help your customers. It’s not about you and what you get out of it; it’s about what you give.”

The sponsors “role” is simple; pay your money and get your branding to the organizers for inclusion in their material. That’s it. To make the most out of the day, forget about what you’re trying to sell 9-to-5 and give some thought to what you have to contribute. It’s a conference about soft selling for Pete’s sake – if you’re busy packing the demo-booth you might want to rethink it.

Derek Massey on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 7:25 am

Since the topic of sponsors has come up, I’ll “pitch” my 2 cents.

My company sponsored and I attended REBCVA, and will be doing the same (sponsoring and attending) REBCPHL.

Why?

I love the combination of people, real estate, technology and communication. I love the idea of an event where 3 agents from NH drive down to Virginia to be amongst like-minded people and walk away with new ideas and “eureka moments”. I want to be part of that.

So why not just attend and not sponsor?

My company is a big part of me, and I want all to know how much I (we) support not only REBC, but the whole RE.Net thing. I would love nothing better than for my company to be one of the few title companies “moving with the cheese” in this New Media world. Again, I want US (as a company) to be a part of that.

We didn’t come with swag, didn’t solicit anyone for anything except ideas, shared drinks and friendship. We got our name on the REBC website, and I occasionally threw up tweets that referenced our company. I am sure all have since recovered from our marketing blitz.

I guess I look at the sponsorship dollars as a donation to be allowed to — as a non-agent — be allowed to hear from and mingle with the best and brightest agents out there, and hopefully adopt my business model accordingly.

I’m assuming that’s a proper role for a sponsor. You tell me?

Rob Hahn on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 7:34 am

Oh, I don’t know what the answer is, Derek. I’m figuring it out like the rest of y’all as we go along.

I mean, we’ve sponsored REBC’s simply because we wanted to support the movement. It isn’t that expensive, after all.

It’s just… in these times, I do have to account for every dollar spent.

Let’s not forget that contributing to REBC does not require sponsoring it with US dollars. That’s open to all and sundry, and if we have something useful to contribute, then we should at that.

David can go to a REBC and contribute simply by talking about various topics he’s knowledgeable on, and talk about using Zillow most effectively, etc. That isn’t a sales pitch; it’s sharing knowledge.

But that doesn’t mean Zillow has to part with dollars to have David do that.

So why part with the dollars?

If it’s just as a financial expression of support, then I submit that REBC’s should be organized as 501(c)(3) educational charities, so that companies donating money can at least claim a charitable deduction. And list REBC as a charity their organization supports, similar to how some Green organizations are structured.

-rsh

Nannette Saunders on Wed, 22nd Apr 2009 10:08 am

I think if you let the money through sponsorship stand in the way then everyone loses. RE agents lose because they won’t learn about how a sponsor/vender can help them and as a sponsor one would lose the exposure.
So it can not be about whether a sponsor paid the nominal investment or if they donated their time.
The spirit of the event is to offer a dynamic environment of sharing. To get RE agents to do that is quite an accomplishment when traditionally RE agents don’t share and compete usually very fiercely. I just find it interesting how this discussion changed focus. Not necessarily a bad thing that the discussion changed just interesting. I really hope $250 is not a deal breaker when it comes to a sponsor making a decision whether to participate in such an event. I thought those that market on line would be interested in forming more intimate relationship with those they do business with. I think REBar is a good opportunity to do that. In fact I think REBar is the best opportunity that any vender has at this time. As an agent it is the best opportunity that I could have to take my on line marketing to the next level. Either you get it or you don’t but I don’t think it is about the money.

Brad Coy on Thu, 23rd Apr 2009 12:30 pm

To keep it all on point.

Todd said: “If you want to influence an RE BarCamp event, be a part of it’s organization.”

It is that simple, yet at the same time people have a lot of thoughts and questions about how they can be a part of “it”. We hear a lot of talk about people “getting it”.

When we say “get it”, that’s understanding, right? If you took away a better understanding of what REbarcamp can be, then this discussion helps.

Mine is not to over influence any one direction of how groups want to create an REbarcamp. If that’s what came across, then please accept my best intention.

Jay does sum it up nicely with “The bottom line to me is, if you want an REBC run a certain way, knock yourself out. Organize one. You can do it in a coffee shop, or a hotel, or a baseball stadium. You can do it with, or without, sponsors. You can keep it small, or grow it as large as your venue and pocketbook allow. You can make the rules.

Again… involvement and participation.

Thanks again for yours.

Dale Chumbley on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 1:45 am

Where to begin??? I don’t know. Don’t think my brain has the power to tackle all my thoughts on this thread after this last week.

Yes, I was one of the organizers of the most recent RE BarCamp Portland (one of the two from April 23rd). Of course, Phoenix was the other killer RE BarCamp.

I’m only going to touch on a few of my thoughts re: RE BarCamps.

I’ll start at the top with Ricardo’s comments. Since we were the most recent to be blessed with the Dakno presence I’ll share my experiences. I spoke to Brad & Bobby a couple times before they flew out. The only conversations we had were to confirm we had WiFi and to see if we had any sound system. No conversation was had about a main room, set up or any of that. Our venue seemed to dictate what made the most sense. In fact, once they got there, we basically told them where they needed to set up given out logistics (sorry guys). ;?) They not only live streamed the main room but made efforts to get in with their other camera to record the masses sitting on the floor in the other rooms. They also provided us with wireless mics that worked better than the onsite equipment. At no time did our planning sessions have any conversation about the presence of a camera for a livestream. I personally never felt any need to cater the main area to what would be best for that. I hope they come back again next time around!

Given the makeup of our attendees we knew we had to have a general idea of what may be discussed in advance (I’m glad we did since only 3 people stepped up with anything they were willing to put “on the board”). Basically, we tried to determine which topics would draw the most people given our DNA and put those in the main room. Our breakout room sizes weren’t balanced enough to just “let it happen”. We had to have a bit of a plan before the day of the event. The beauty of RE BarCamp is THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG! Each is open to that particular crowd/city.

Funny thing about RE BarCamps, I flew all the way across the country to NYC & I knew 80% of the people the minute I walked in the door of the Marquis. I help organize an event in my own backyard & I know maybe 20% of the audience. THAT is crazy! That tells you, the “RE.net” what sort of makeup we had.

While we didn’t have a large rush of people desiring to put something on the board, we did have groups ranging from 2 to 22 sitting at tables, gathering around a cubicle, hanging in the “living room” area in the front, sitting at small conference tables, sitting on the floor SHARING IDEAS!!! Yes, mini RE BarCamps were happening all over the place all day long (please don’t let the attendees know, it might scare them). ;?)

As for vendor sales pitches, I think you’d be hard pressed to find an attendee who could tell you who the sponsors were based upon the topics of the day. If we hadn’t put up signs, added them to the back of the shirts & mentioned them twice during the day no one would have known who they were.

Mike, I’d say our event did a pretty good job of reaching out to the offline, sitting in the office real estate professionals in our community. Lots really were newbies. This is what we hoped for and I think the goal was achieved. One of my local non RE friends who came to lead a session & also volunteer to be in the Bloggers Workshop said it best. She said, “this group is so great, they openly admit they don’t know anything at all and completely are open to listen and learn”. As opposed to so many who “think” they know it all and argue with anyone trying to help.

As for rocking the RE BarCamp boat, if I help head up Portland again it will likely have a $10 per person cost associated with it. Paid via PayPal (or the like) upon registration. Also, I’ll do my best to get a venue large enough to not have to do the daily “3 people out, invite next 3 on waiting list” game. That SUCKED & was so time consuming.

I think I’ve rambled too much already & as originally stated, my brain is still mush… Thanks for reading.

Jay Thompson on Sun, 26th Apr 2009 8:13 am

I think Dale’s comment is very interesting, particularly the contrast between REBC Portland, and REBC Phoenix, which were both held last Thursday.

We had the opposite problem with regard to people wanting to put topics on the board. Too many people approached it.

We didn’t have any live streaming. In fact, we didn’t have any wifi available for the attendees. And the feedback I got from many was they were glad we didn’t as it allowed them to focus on the event, not spend time working, or tweeting, or whatever.

Like Portland, there were no real vendor sales pitches. Yet the sponsors I talked to were, without fail, glad they sponsored.

We did “moderate” our agenda board, and I did tell some vendors they couldn’t have a large room, but they were welcome to take a smaller room or grab space on the patio areas. Some did, some didn’t. All understood. (there was one that snuck something in).

Fortunately, our venue was large enough to handle as many as wanted to show up. The pain Dale experienced in having to manipulate the attendance list is something I’m glad we didn’t have to experience.

While Portland and Phoenix were different in some aspects, they were similar in others. We also had many “impromptu” sessions. And more than one session morphed into something different than what was originally indicated on the board.

The differences just point out what Dale said is quite true – “The beauty of RE BarCamp is THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG! Each is open to that particular crowd/city.”

I must have had 50 people walk up to me toward the end of the day and say, “Be sure to let me know when the next one is. I will be there.” I don’t think anyone regretted coming. No one said “you did it wrong”.

PotterTracey22 on Wed, 16th Jun 2010 5:19 am

Make your own life time easier take the mortgage loans and all you need.

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